FABOTH - King's Crossing

[Paul Kemp]

So, I brought this up over on Blamo, but I guess they've discussed it to death over there. I still have a bit in me on it, so I'm gonna talk about it here, and any input y'all have is more than welcome


In the song King's Crossing, one of the lyrics is a bit tricky to understand. The word that is the subject of debate is either "talk," "dark" or "duck."

the judge is on vinyl, decisions are final
and nobody gets a reprieve
and every wave is tidal - if you hang around
you're going to get wet

i can't prepare for death any more than i already have

all you can do now is watch the shells
the game looks easy that's why it sells
frustrated fireworks inside your head
are going to stand and deliver - duck instead

the judge is on vinyl, decisions are final
and nobody gets a reprieve
and every wave is tidal - if you hang around
you're going to get wet

i can't prepare for death any more than i already have

all you can do now is watch the shells
the game looks easy that's why it sells
frustrated fireworks inside your head
are going to stand and deliver talk instead

the judge is on vinyl, decisions are final
and nobody gets a reprieve
and every wave is tidal - if you hang around
you're going to get wet

i can't prepare for death any more than i already have

all you can do now is watch the shells
the game looks easy that's why it sells
frustrated fireworks inside your head
are going to stand and deliver dark instead

There are a few known versions of this. Of course, there's the version on Basement, which is a little muddy, but sounds pretty much like a D sound to me.

There's the versions at Henry Fonda, 01/31/03 and 02/01/03.

01/31 sounds the most like "duck," which was what I heard it as before I ever read any lyrics. 02/01 is fuzzier even than the album, and is the best case for "talk," if one exists.

The earliest version I've heard is 10/14/99, which doesn't really help much...

Out of the three, duck makes pretty good sense, and once I thought about it the irony of fireworks delivering dark makes a good bit of sense itself. "Talk" seems like the least likely, though I guess it could be an "all talk, no show" sort of thing...

Opinions? Other versions we can listen to? Post away!

[hockeybz12]

ok i see duck now (it took a while)
i always thought talk until i really listened to it... like really really istened to it
i thought it made sense as you said in the all talk no show. that these cats are just spewing insanity at him, but well when i listen to any version now i cannot and do not ever here talk.

i'm listening to the five versions (your four plus a random video that may or may not actually be one of the aforementioned sources) at my fingertips and am tracking down each word... i still can't tell though hehe

wow
this is good this is hard hehe

ok i'll shoot a case for dark,
i'd say dark kind of like an imagine of fireworks shooting blank. the frustrated fireworks inside your head don't do anything at all. they don't go off, they don't start your mind, they just stay there and "deliver dark" or just give you nothing but a vast emptyness or darkness. i think this can also tie into the whole 'i can't prepare for death anymore than i already have' because if he's having dark in his head, he's retty much ready for death, cause nothing is going on up there, so why bother living, right?

i don't know a thing though hehe i just know this is one of those songs that i find hard to get even beyond this line, yet, it is one of my favourite elliott songs...

does anyone know all teh shows this was played at? or at least some other ones beyond what's up there? i think this song is great live and would love to track down some more copies too


also opinions on the album version just in general... i find the acoustic versions to be a lot more powerful and strong, anyone agree/disagree?

[Paul Kemp]

Originally Posted by hockeybz12

also opinions on the album version just in general... i find the acoustic versions to be a lot more powerful and strong, anyone agree/disagree?

I really, really, really, really like the album version. It makes me think of Lennon, if he'd had a chance to grow older and more cynical, even if it is a bit heavy on the keyboards.

[mister grieves]

I think the album version is better. Those reverse organs and everything, it really all fits together with the song. It's one of my favorites of all of his songs. I like the acoustic live version too, but I don't think it compares.

Also, I think it's talk, but that's just me.

[hockeybz12]

it's not that i don't like the album version (i really dig the bass and where it really comes in) it's just the album vocal track as opposed to a live vocal track is what gets me... to me the album vocal track has less of the emotion that is present in some of the live versions i've heard...

i don't know, maybe the instrumentation of the song is relaying all that emotion (which i think it somewhat does)\

i think i'll try and find a way to dub the live vocals over the album track and see how that comes out

[Paul Kemp]

Originally Posted by hockeybz12

it's not that i don't like the album version (i really dig the bass and where it really comes in) it's just the album vocal track as opposed to a live vocal track is what gets me... to me the album vocal track has less of the emotion that is present in some of the live versions i've heard...

i don't know, maybe the instrumentation of the song is relaying all that emotion (which i think it somewhat does)\

i think i'll try and find a way to dub the live vocals over the album track and see how that comes out

I don't know that the vocals need to relay more emotion. What I get from them is a sort of emotional numbness that I would say fits the theme of the song...

[Paul Kemp]

Another line that I don't hear the same as the lyrics on sa.net is

open your parachute and grab your gun
falling down like an omen, a setting sun
read the part and return at five

I hear "return that fire."

[flarfmaster]

does anyone know who sings "because i love you"??? i heard it was his sister but i can't find it in the production notes.

[dhuck]

okay, i'm going to preface my opinion with the fact that i always thought (via sweetadeline) that it was "talk." so with that said... here's my thoughts.

"frustruated fireworks" i belive, stand for the inarticulated thoughts that we all have bouncing around in our heads. it is what drives us, the beautiful sounds, the amazing words. we try to get them down on paper, or on the guitar, or what have you - but they never exactly come out how we wish that they would. it's always something different. we're frustrated because of this. we've got these beautiful things bouncing around in our heads, but we can't seem to share them with someone else. musicians, great writers, artists, etc etc have managed to come close - they've been able to articulate what we (the plebians - sorry if i'm offending anyone - of life) have been able to do. these ramblings, these posts - this one right here, is a frustrated firework. it's something that we expected to be more.

elliott says that since we cannot get these out, we "stand and deliver talk instead." we jabber. we post. we write nonsensical ramblings that other people do not understand, or do not "get." it is just talk, talk, talk. it is not communication, it is not understanding, it is talk. if we go to websters to define talk - we see: "to articulate," "to give expression in words," "to speak of or discuss." it is simply talk. there is nothing deeper here - i think elliott's trying to get at that understanding, nonverbal communication, there is something more. just talking is not everything. there is playing the guitar, there is layering music on top of the words, that brings us closer to understanding those beautiful words that bounce around in our heads.

... that's my opinion at least. hope it comes close to what i feel.


edit: my apologies that i don't use any recordings to back up my interpretation. i roll with lyrics, not exactly what he says.

[blue motion]

Originally Posted by flarfmaster

does anyone know who sings "because i love you"??? i heard it was his sister but i can't find it in the production notes.

It's really hard to hear, i honestly don't know how anyone heard it before they were told about it. But apparently it was his girlfriend and/or sister who would yell "because we love you" at his shows when he sang the line "give me one good reason not to do it." you can kinda hear it if you listen.

[Chonz]

King's Crossing is the song that I am currently obsessed with....an obsession within an obsession, if you will. It is an extremely dark and sinister song and contains what I feel to be some of Elliott's most personal lyrics. As I'm falling asleep, I am generally singing the lyrics in my head and they are floating around in there when I wake up in the morning (and 1/2 the time I listen to it during my wake and bake).

I hadn't paid much attention to the dark/duck/talk thing until this thread and after listening to it again, I am going to have to go with dark. I like the imagry of dark (frustrated) fireworks.

I love the fact that this board is set up based entirely on lines from this song.

Beautiful and haunting and I don't think any more of my words will do it justice right now.

[flarfmaster]

Originally Posted by blue motion

It's really hard to hear, i honestly don't know how anyone heard it before they were told about it. But apparently it was his girlfriend and/or sister who would yell "because we love you" at his shows when he sang the line "give me one good reason not to do it." you can kinda hear it if you listen.

yeah, i can hear it in the live versions. i could hear it in the studio recording because i listen to music at high volumes almost all of the time. either that or with headphones. it took me a few listens to hear it in the live versions.
well, thanks for your input

[blue motion]

initially i heard "duck" but after listening to the live versions more closely and going back to the album version i hear a distinct "r" sound. there is no doubt in my mind that the live versions say "dark," but i'm also positive that the main attraction used to be the "big problem" and not the "king's crossing." so he definately changed some lyrics and it is possible that he changed the "dark" to "talk" but i highly doubt it.

so i'm gonna go with "dark instead"

[greggory david]

Originally Posted by flarfmaster

yeah, i can hear it in the live versions. i could hear it in the studio recording because i listen to music at high volumes almost all of the time. either that or with headphones. it took me a few listens to hear it in the live versions.
well, thanks for your input

Flarf........
i know this thread is old but i saw it & thought i'd pitch my two cents in.
according to Ben Nugents biography on Elliott, Jennifer Chiba, his girlfriend & the one who was there when he died, sang that line on Basement. Elliott didn't originally want to put it in there but it had kinda become tradition so the producer told Chiba to sing it. after she sang it Elliott, who was standing close by, asked her to marry him. All this according to what's written in Elliott Smith & the Big Nothing.
i thought it was a good story though.

[Pretty(UglyBefore)]

Originally Posted by greggory david

Flarf........
i know this thread is old but i saw it & thought i'd pitch my two cents in.
according to Ben Nugents biography on Elliott, Jennifer Chiba, his girlfriend & the one who was there when he died, sang that line on Basement. Elliott didn't originally want to put it in there but it had kinda become tradition so the producer told Chiba to sing it. after she sang it Elliott, who was standing close by, asked her to marry him. All this according to what's written in Elliott Smith & the Big Nothing.
i thought it was a good story though.

That totally sounds like Elliott's voice. I don't exactly understand that story. What's the tradition? And if she did sing it, did Elliott re-do it, cause it all sounds like Elliott to me. I wanna get that bio, by the way.

[greggory david]

the story is that during shows when Elliott would sing the part in King's Crossing that goes " gimme one good reason not to do it" (threatening suicide)
his girlfriend Jennifer Chiba & his sister would yell "because we love you".
on the album though it's soooo far back in the mix, if i wasn't looking for it i think i'd miss it. but it's definitely a female voice. maybe the same female voice that harmonizes with him on Let's Get Lost???

[flarfmaster]

that could be it... she might be the one. i wonder who she is still, though.

[hockeybz12]

Originally Posted by greggory david

the story is that during shows when Elliott would sing the part in King's Crossing that goes " gimme one good reason not to do it" (threatening suicide)
his girlfriend Jennifer Chiba & his sister would yell "because we love you".
on the album though it's soooo far back in the mix, if i wasn't looking for it i think i'd miss it. but it's definitely a female voice. maybe the same female voice that harmonizes with him on Let's Get Lost???

going with the during shows part, you can hear it ('because i love you') in the background on both the 1/31/03 and 2/1/03 henry fonda theatre shows (though it's pretty far back and a little muffled, but definitely there)... i can guarantee you the voice there isn't elliott's and you have to kind of really listen to hear it, but i am certain it is there... maybe that would go back in telling or confirming that story, because he was living in la at that time, no?


i unno mayee one of you cats could compare the voice with something from chiba's band if any of you's have something of her's (she had one, right?)
it'd be pretty damn tough though... good luck if one of ya's decides to go for it!

[Paul Kemp]

Originally Posted by greggory david

the story is that during shows when Elliott would sing the part in King's Crossing that goes " gimme one good reason not to do it" (threatening suicide)
his girlfriend Jennifer Chiba & his sister would yell "because we love you".

It's a pretty common misconception that that line is about suicide, but given the general theme of the song (drug use), it seems much more likely that the question would be "give me a reason not to do drugs" not "give me a reason not to kill myself."

[greggory david]

hmmm......."i can't prepare for death anymore than i already have"
he's ready. he's embraced it. he wants it and is trying to facilitate it.
that's the way it seems to me anyway.....
welcome back Paul : )))

[flarfmaster]

Originally Posted by Paul Kemp

It's a pretty common misconception that that line is about suicide, but given the general theme of the song (drug use), it seems much more likely that the question would be "give me a reason not to do drugs" not "give me a reason not to kill myself."

that really makes sense... i always just assumed it to be about suicide (i think most did) but it being about drugs seems to fit with the rest, yes.

[faelan]

well, i don't think it's that clear wether he meant suicide or drugs. ambiguity and wordplays are a common feature of poetry and lyrics.

[greggory david]

That's very true faelan.
and some of his lyrics are kinda hard to peg down
like "inject my ex-wife"
he was never married.
so.......maybe the song isn't even about him
??

[Paul Kemp]

Originally Posted by greggory david

That's very true faelan.
and some of his lyrics are kinda hard to peg down
like "inject my ex-wife"
he was never married.
so.......maybe the song isn't even about him
??

Again, referring to his relationship with heroin.

[Pretty(UglyBefore)]

Originally Posted by Paul Kemp

Again, referring to his relationship with heroin.

That's a good point. This song is rather confusing, it's like Alice in Wonderland of songs, kinda jumps around, or so it seems. It seems to me like this song is more of a gathering of thoughts than one topic, but I'm not Elliott, so I don't know what went on inside his head.

[glockboy98]

open your parachute and grab your gun
falling down like an omen, a setting sun

does anyone else hear "float down like an omen"

[blue motion]

yeah, no question. It has to be "float."

[blue motion]

i'm surprised anyone made that mistake actually

[Paul Kemp]

Originally Posted by blue motion

i'm surprised anyone made that mistake actually

Well, Elliott didn't alway enunciate super well

[blue motion]

true